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The Peruvian Impeachment Crisis explained

Around 10 months ago I wrote an effortpost explaining our upcoming especial congress election and the context of it. Today I write this effortpost to explain how and why current congress tried multiple times to impeach and remove President Vizcarra from office, and now doing that resulted in the biggest protests in Peruvian Modern History.
In this effortpost I want to focus mainly on what happened after Martin Vizcarra, President of Perú, on July 8th called for the 2021 elections, which was his constitutional duty as President.
In this effortpost we will not be discussing in depth his response to Covid-19, his relationship with Congress before he called for new elections, the past of Peruvian Politics and how it got us where we are right now.
I believe that my previous effortpost provides good enough information about the context behind the beginning of this new congress, and while Covid 19 is important to the story it will only be mentioned in relation to the impeachment and removal of office.

Now lets begin:

The Peruvian Special Congressional Elections provide a couple of surprises, from the former Meme Party FREPAP gaining the 3rd most seats in congress to Union Por El Perú (UPP) getting 13 seats and using them to try to pardon their leader, Antauro Humala, an Andean Nazi with communist characteristics.
The elections also provided good suprises like the newly formed Purple (Liberal/Centrist) Party getting a respectable 7.4% of the vote (the biggest party got 10.26%) on their first ever election. Another "moderate" party like Acción Popular won the biggest share of seats with 25, while the Fujimorist Party, Fuerza Popular, lost 58 seats and their absolute majority.
The new congress wasnt the rejection of corruption and populism some had hoped, but if the main culripts behind corruption and obstruction lost 58 seats while moderates got a majority if they worked together then it surely there was something to be happy about, it surely couldnt be worse than previous congress!
Turns out it was.
Most of the energy and time of current congress pre-impeachment was spent dealing with Covid-19, which started a crisis weeks after the New Congress had starting governing.
Perú dealt with it with a very strong lookdown, the government knew we werent prepared for a pandemic and that our lack of doctors and medical facilities was gonna be a disaster if spread infections happened (and they did)
Much can be said about the response of government to the pandemic (as in, did they do anything wrong and our poor dealing with Coronavirus was just inevitable since our lack of preparation? or did they do anything right at all) but I think the "consensus" could be the following.
We were awfully prepared for the pandemic, from people not taking it seriously past the first couple of weeks, to the size of our informal economy, to the % of our population that has no refrigerators (so "just stay at home" is not an option) to our massive lack of Intensive Care Units and Doctors. I believe that whoever was in power during the pandemic was gonna struggle with it . However it should also be said that the government, lead by Martin Vizcarra, did have some shortcomings. Not enough tests were bought soon enough, the delivery of our Covid Relief money wasnt swift since a big part of our population doesnt have bank accounts, and much more. However the government never tried to downplay Covid-19 or pretend that it would "go away"
Now, while critics of Vizcarra's handle of Covid were obviously discontent before the calling for elections, they never directly attacked him due to it. It was (at least in congress) more constructive criticism (mixed with a little of populism) in the line of "we should do X instead of Y because Y isnt working"
However starting in August (were the pandemic reached its highest peak in terms of cases and deaths) things started going south.

Richard Swing and corruption charges:

1. 2.
Now, here's the deal, Peruvian Politicians are corrupt. As you saw with my last effortpost, fighting corruption and a congress that wanted obstruct said fight was the main reason behind the dissolution of previous congress and the call for special elections.
Is Martin Vizcarra, the brave Maverick Outsider President that never wanted power in the first plance, a saint that is not guilty of corruption? Probably not
However, were any of the two (yes, they tried twice cause if at first you dont succeed try again) impeachment process based on enough evidence to remove a President from office? Were they the correct thing to do in the middle of a pandemic and so close to elections? I'll give my take at the end and hopefully you can form your own
Now lets get on to the Swing. Who is Richard Swing and why does he matter(ed)? He is just a peruvian singer. He matters because around June some interesting news came out about a leaked contract he had made with the Ministry of Culture, where they paid Swing 30,000 USD to give "motivational speeches" during the Covid Crisis.
Now, with all due to respect to Mr Swing, he is a no name of Peruvian Music, literal nobody before this story came out, so why would the Ministry of Culture get somebody like him to "motivate" workers and no somebody with a little bit more fame? and why the hell would they pay him so much?
Turns out, he knew Vizcarra
More leaks showed that Swing had participated in multiple meetings and rallies from PPK, the party that invited Vizcarra to run as VP back in 2016, and that some shady dealings there may have happened between the two of thems, tho nothing was or was yet confirmed, however investigations are still in place.
It was around this time when Public Opinion started to turn against this congress. "Why the hell do they care more about getting Vizcarra out than about dealing with the pandemic?? people are dying!"
It was that after Vizcarra called for elections, they didnt need him anymore. The fact that he had no party in congress to mantain his "outsider" and "I am not like the other politicians" look made him a much more easy prey for a congress looking for conflict.
On friday the 18th of September Peruvian Congress discussed Vizcarra's impeachment and removal from office (all done with one round of voting) for a little over 10 hours and in the end they couldnt reach the 87 votes (2/3rds of congress) to impeach Vizcarra, getting only 32 votes in favor to 78 votes against and 15 abstained. 1.
“It’s not the moment to proceed with an impeachment which would add even more problems to the tragedy we are living,”
  • Partido Morado Congressman Francisco Sagasti
Vizcarra survived to fight another day, tho his peace lasted little over 6 weeks.

Governor of Moquegua and the 2nd (and final) impeachment.

Martin Vizcarra, before being picked as VP in PPK's presidential ticket due to diversity reasons, was Governor of a small but rich Region called Moquegua.
Less than a week after Vizcarra survived the impeachment vote, UPP put foward a censorship motion due to corruption and collusion charges during Vizcarra's tenure as Governor of Moquegua
This included the testimony of an "effective collaborator" that said that Obrainsa) paid Vizcarra over 1 million Peruvian Soles, while another 3 effective collaborators said that Vizcarra received over 1,3 Million Peruvian Soles to help a company with the bidding for the Regional Hospital of Moquegua. 1.
Vizcarra responded by affirming that he was innocent of all he was accussed of and that the impeachment was done for political parties to try and delay elections because "They know they have no chance of winning next elections"
The President of Vizcarra's Cabinet Walter Martos accussed congress of trying to "coup" Vizcarra in a conspiracy to take power and pardon criminal Antauro Humala, leader of UPP
The OAS issued an statement saying that "We wish to express our worry for the political situation that is occuring in Perú. Having in mind the context of the pandemic and its effect on the health of human life."
Now let it be known that even tho the investigation did have some merits, Vizcarra was (and still hasnt) never been convicted of anything and that dozens of congresspeople are also under investigation. What multiple people argued was that even if Vizcarra is guilty, we are in the middle of a pandemic and 5 months before an election, so impeaching him would only generate more inestability.
The only party that completely (some parties had Mavericks in them) oppossed impeachment from the beginning was the Partido Morado, arguing exactly that.
On November 9th Congress held the vote to impeach Martin Vizcarra, which easily passed with 105 Yays, 19 nays and 2 abstentions

Crossing the Rubicon

People inmediately starting going to the Congress to manifest their displeasure over the removal of arguably the most popular President in Peruvian History (more on that later)
Not only that, even a Congressman from Acción Popular was punched in the mouth by a protestor
Martin Vizcarra's goodbye speech was the beginning of the biggest protests in Peruvian Modern History while also being a fitting end for such a especial Presidency. Vizcarra did not claim to be the rightful President, he did not claim that he would keep on fighting, he accepted the impeachment while declaring that he was innocent from any wrongdoing.

Protests and Deaths

Ever since November 10th, when President of Congress Manuel Merino swore in as President, massive protests have followed all over the country, with an exceptional maginute
Merino (and congress) responded by saying that it would all slow down and stop in a few days when Peruvians accepted what happened
His incompetence and underestimating of the anger that congress had caused in Peruvians was gonna cost them soon
Soon it became obvious that cops were not enough to control the protests, and since sending in the Military was too extreme of an option even for Merino, he decided to sent the Grupo Terno
Grupo Terna is a special unit of the National Police that is designed to fight Narcos.
The Group infiltrated the protests without uniform or police badge to try to promote chaos and destruction of public property. When discovered some pull out their weapon and start shooting "warning shots"
This confrontation between the Terna Group and the protesters started heating up this friday, from tear gas to rubber bullets, but the biggest "news" came in the 14th
The first reported death came this saturday night, when a protester died due to 11 firearm projectile wounds, five to the head, two to the right shoulder, two to the cheast and two to the waist.
He was 25.
Then came the 2nd Death and the over 100 wounded
Its then when the resignations started. 6 Members of Merino's cabinet resigned within hours of the first reported deaths, leaving him a tough situation to say the least
Then today morning, Manuel Merino announced his resignation as President of Perú (which was accepted by congress a couple of minutes ago)

FAQs

What do Congress have to gain by impeaching Vizcarra?
I dont think there was one clear goal besides seizing power and using it for their own personal interests. Vizcarra's presidency had been focused around fighting corruption, according to some with more bark than bite, but after it became clear he was not gonna negotiate a pardon of Antauro Humala, backing down of financing reform, or any of the other populist proposals congress wanted, it became obvious to them that he needed to go.
Why the hell are protests so big?
Every single Peruvian President since 2001 has entered their last year in office with less than 30% approval and most have finished with less than 20%.
Martin Vizcarra ented the last year of his presidency with over 80% of approval and it never dipped below the high 60s% during Covid.
This combined with the pre conceived notion that "Congress doesnt care about us, they only care about power" meant that Congress impeaching Vizcarra instead of focusing on the Pandemic that has killed over 30,000 Peruvians struck a real nerve.
Why did congress think they could get away with it?
Because, sadly, they have gotten away with worse before.
This is the country were the daughter of a plutocratic dictator sentenced to over 20 years in prison due to crimes against humanity and endless corruption is still popular enough to get his daughter into back to back Presidential run offs just because they share the last name.
The idea that "all politicians are the same" and that "corruption is in their nature" is ingrained in the Peruvian Psyche. When a new corruption scandal appears people are never suprised, its an endless cycle between trying to choose between "the one that is corrupt but works" and "the one that is corrupt but doesnt work"
Some rumours say that congress didnt actually thought they had the votes to impeach Vizcarra and did it on accident. While I have no faith in the competence of our congress I do not believe this.
You dont try to impeach the President twice in 3 months if your end goal is not to remove him from office.
There had never been massive protests like these before, congress (and I) assumed that the political apathy from Peruvians would mean they would just "give up" and forget about it after a couple of days. They were wrong
why is current congress so much like the former one?
I think that while Peruvians were indeed tired of corruption and fighting, Fuerza Popular took most of the blame (considering their majority was the one that antagonized the President, its obvious as to why) and now that they knew voting for them wasnt an option, Peruvians thought "now what?"
I think that the idea that "everybody is the same" and the fact that Vizcarra didnt present any party left a lot of people undecided on who should they vote for, which is why no party managed to get over 11% of the vote
Whats next after this?
A new transitional government would have to name, with the President, Vicepresident and 2nd Vicepresident being choosen between the Congresspeople that voted against the impeachment (be it the "mavericks" from the parties that voted in against their party or a member of the Purple Party)
Who will be choosen? who knows! Voting is taking place as I'm writing this, so by the time you read it we could already have a new President. Stay tuned
Will next election be a step into the right direction and open a new page in Peruvian politics?
Some hope it will, some want to hope but dont want to be dissapointed again like me. Only time will tell.
submitted by The420Roll to neoliberal

Destiny Political Problems & Miscellaneous Shit Takes

TL:DR -> Destiny has many problems mainly when it comes to left leaning political debates spawning from a few things that he seems to refuse to considedo. He also has a lot of really awful reactionary opinions. Also Destiny you probably shouldn't read Marx he does a great job at explaining the inherent failures of capitalism but he doesn't really complete leftist world view. This is Destiny
 
Part 1: Reading Books & ‘Debating’ Leftist Viewpoints
 
    Destiny is way past the point where he can learn more about leftist ideas from talking to random left leaning people. It is time that he either reads some leftist literature or finds the time and way to talk to leftist theorists. Also, I don’t mean he should try to debate them, he really should just listen to what they have to say. That is because Destiny needs to understand that there really is no singular leftist approach on how to change the world (also this could allow him to really show his greatness with his 2nd conversation/debate where he actually researches and brings thoughtful questions to these people). There are many different views of how to start the change, how to implement such change and of course what the end point actually is. This is why you see so much infighting and disagreements within left discourse. Which leads to the next problem.
 
    When Destiny was constantly arguing with Ethno-Nationalists/Racists he would always without fail, ask them to define their terms to ad nauseam. Why not do the same for all of the lefty people you talk to? Instead of getting upset that people often use terms differently get them to quickly define what they mean when they use certain overused terms. I mean we can’t really believe someone knows what socialism is when they claim both Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are socialists.
 
    Finally, Destiny also needs to understand or at least accept that most people won’t have a list of specific policy prescriptions or the ability to properly articulate their views or the views that they have read. I mean this shouldn’t be surprising. It happens with most people he talks to concerning most topics. If everyone had such a high level of substance and understanding the US political discourse would be completely different than what it is now.
 
Part 2: Destiny’s Lack of Imagination with Socialism or Why Wal-Mart is Socalist!
 
    Destiny seems to accept that capitalism is inherently broken and that with no constraints applied to it it will lead to massive inequality, potentially the end human existence on the planet and the requirement of a slave class/ cheap explotatible labour (or whatever you want to call it). So I am often quite confused that Destiny continues to tout that he is a hard core capitalist. I don’t really see how he can hold both positions at the same time. That being said I will skip over a bunch of this and just get right to the point because Destiny has had this argument way too many times and he usually just wants to hear how the other side, socialism, would work in reality. However before that I can't help but show a few examples of people either ignoring capitalist incentives or capitalist incentives directly going against the continued existence of humans:
 
 
    Now, with all of that out of the way let’s get to how the companies would operate under a socalist economic system. Also since Destiny isn’t really a big fan of talking about a hypothetical world and hypothetical economic systems I will constrain myself to a real world company that can be used to as a stand as the embodiment of Socialism. That being a completely internally planned company that exists within the capitalist world. As you should be able to guess it is, The People’s Republic of Wal-Mart. Yes this is the only book I will suggest (Also you can find it for free online, but do buy it for it is cheap and the authors are doing real good work). To get right to the most interesting part for our purpose we will look at a portion of the book that is devoted to examining two different companies with two very different approaches to how they run their business. That being Wal-Mart v Sears, Roebuck and Company or Sears.
 
    Obviously as the title suggests, Wal-Mart is run very much like a socalist country would/could be run with a vast network of information sharing to allow real time understanding of every aspect of the company (though Wal-Mart is still authoritarian and thus not a 1-1 example. Also yes Wal-Mart is pretty awful when it comes to a lot of things, ie being authoritarian). This also includes information sharing from and with the companies it purchases products from. This can be seen through an insane relationship that Wal-Mart and P&G have with each other. P&G technically owns all of the merchandize until it is literally purchased. Thus Wal-Mart is only responsible for any aspect of recalls, damage, defective and so on while it is literally being scanned. P&G accept such a relationship not because of the profit it generates but for the information that they receive. Oh, and Wal-Mart doesn’t have this power due to economies of scale; It is the information sharing and networks that allows them to have such efficient scaling.
 
    So, onto Sears. Well if you have lived anywhere in the US over the past decade or two you would realize that Sears has become an endangered species of a store closing store after store year in and year out. As explored in the book a lot of this is a result of how the company was internally managed.That being our good friend capitalism! When Eddie Lampert took over as the CEO he was horrified to see that it was set up like Wal-Mart, in his mind like communism. So, he changed it and each department at Sears was to become independent of the others basically making them into their own individual company. They would compete with each other and often hide information from other departments. One wild example of this dysfunction was when the tools department trying to get the front cover of their promotional flyer for the Mother's Day issue. This obviously isn’t the only reason that Sears failed but it is clear the turning point that set it on its current path to bankruptcy and death.
 
    Now that I have demonstrated how a company can succeed with socialist methods and how capitalist methods are an active detriment we can move on to two smaller issues that Destiny constantly brings up.
 
    The first being, co-ops and more specifically how they won't really protect the environment in a meaningful way when compared to a capitalist company. Well this seems to completely dismiss the new information on how most environmental damage is caused by only 100 companies. This also seems to completely disregard how co-ops are much more likely to think about long term success and stability of their company and community than instant short term revenues.
 
    This view also disregards how co-ops often run their supply chains. Most co-ops are supplied by local communities, but those areas aren't as local as most would think. They often expand into different states that can be quite far away. That is because co-ops are also significantly more likely to share information with other co-ops within similar industries which allows them to cooperate with each other. This can take the form of sharing specialized employees, merchandise, and so on. This doesn't completely eliminate Destiny's issue but it does show that co-ops will be united all around the country which provides a better framework for fighting climate issues.
 
    The corollary problem that Destiny also brings up is that co-ops that become too large will just become the new lobbying menace. There are actually two solutions to this. The real easy one is that co-ops will actually be lobbying for their employees, their communities, and the other communities that they are connected to. The other solution would require Destiny to break out of his self imposed limitation of viewing everything through the context of capitalism. If one can imagine the US with large and powerful co-ops can one not also imagine that it could be possible to limit lobbying and lobbyists power? Why tie two unrelated issues and condemn that a solution for one doesn't solve both? Anyway, that is pretty much it. These aren’t my only issues with Destiny and his viewpoint of capitalism but those can be found in Part: 4. Also just as a reminder this is Destiny.
 
Part 3: US Foreign Policy or how I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Drone
 
TL:DR -> Just look at this map.
 
    Destiny along with most people in the US seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the US really does around the world. The US is often hated for very legitimate reasons, though most of those reasons because the US does tangible violence towards large civilian communities. This is often due to not just what is reported in the media, but how it is reported in the media. It is also due to drones murdering a ton of civilians all over the world. So with that bit of context in mind let us begin by looking at a few countries where the US is currently ‘involved in’ by either trying to foment a revolution/overthrow the current elected government/ or simply exploit them our drone program. As a final note, please remember that the Trump Administration really has taken the mask off with regards to foreign policy and exposed that the cruelty is the point.
 
    Let us start with North Korea, and the on again off again peace talks between both Korean nations and the United States. Well due to how the Korean War Armistice was signed it requires the US to play a pivotal role in the peace process by being the country that gets to decide if South Korea wants to either accept a deal offered by the North Koreans or offer one themselves. That should be a bit troubling in and of itself since if two countries want to normalize their relationship they should probably be able to do that themselves. Another problem should also be very easy to see. US opinion can be enough to drive a wedge between the peace process, which obviously is actually what is happening. The majority of South Koreans want the peace process to continue and approve of what is happening, even though the Koreans seem to be completely ignored within US media. Often times the media will portray North Koreans as being brainwashed into hating the US which is pretty ridiculous, considering the North Koreans seem to have a much more accurate historical memory of what the US did to them. I mean why would they need to be brainwashed? During the Korean war the US destroyed 85% of all buildings and 95% of North Korea's ability to generate power. On top of that the US killed 10% of the civilian population and created a famine that killed untolds more.
 
    The next region that gets even less media discussion is Africa. If often gets almost no media coverage at all, to the point where it seems to surprise the media that the US is even involved in Africa at all. Considering at the time of that article the US was militarily involved in 33 of the 54 African Nations, including either active combat troops or active droning in 5 of those countries. So it is not surprising to see Destiny think that China is leaps and bounds ahead of the US when it comes to exploiting, I mean working with and being friends with African dictators, I mean nations. Though that will be covered in the China section below.
 
    Now onto a country that is practically a neighbor, Venezuela! Though Destiny did seem to react to a lot of the news coverage in this with a quite a bit of good skepticism he seemed to completely brush over something that is basically always left unaddressed within US media. That being sanctions. There is basically no consideration of their impact on a country, the people or how it limits government's choices. During the Venezuela fiasco the US media dutifully reported how the US was trying to let goods into the country without mentioning the strangling sanctions that were in effect at that time. Yet the sanctions that have been in place since 2015 have been estimated to have cost Venezuela ~$130 billion. If the effects of such sanctions were ever properly reported to the public they would be understood for what they are an act of collective punishment at the very least and outright war at their worst. So I think it behoves Destiny to be more aware of such things when talking about foreign policy, even if he still arrives at a decent conclusion. Oh and as a final side note, when talking about South and Central America, the US has basically non-stopped fucked around with them ever since the Monroe Doctrine.
 
    The next two countries should be talked about together since the US is seemingly trying to take their failed strategy from one and re-use it for the next. These two countries being Iraq and Iran. Obviously I shouldn’t have to say too much about Iraq though there are at least two people who should be notable but instead seem to either be ignored or forgotten when it comes to Iraq how it got to be in its current state. The first being Abd al-Karim Qasim and how the US/Western world reacted to his rise to power. The second being the Paul Bremer, a colossol fuck up that litearlly did everything he could do to ruin Iraq for decades.
 
    Which brings us to Iran and how easy it is for anyone to spread US propaganda, aka Destiny’s take. If there is one thing you take away from this it should be the following: Iran has never attempted to obtain a nuclear weapons program and they have only attempted to develop a nuclear power program which they are legally allowed to pursue. In fact the US is legally speaking supposed to assist and support Iran in this endeavor because the US is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Though in all honestly you should just listen to this podcast. They do an excellent job talking about a lot going over a lot of common mistakes that the media and most people have when they talk about Iran. If you want an even deeper dive then read this ‘article’. Also, if anyone thinks that an invasion of Iran will be anything similar to Iraq they are sorely mistaken. They should just look into the hilarious Millennium Challenge 2002 and how woefully unprepared the current US military strategy would be if they had to fight Iran.
 
    Now onto China and Destiny’s recent digression on China’s foreign policy idea(s). That being the 1 Belt & 1 Road initiative and their infrastructure investments in Africa. He speaks of these things positively, which again is a bit puzzling. I mean for all the good the 1 Belt & 1 Road initiative will have by connecting China and Europe together for trade and cheaper and more environmentally friendly transportation, it will also create significant adverse effects for many other countries. For one China requires many of the countries in which the tracks are being laid to more or less give up the land rights in areas that surround the tracks. This is to ensure that nothing can possibly be built to obstruct the trains, and though China is paying a lot for this I highly doubt that the citizens of the country will see tangible benefits from that money. Also, this view continues to outright dismiss Africa as a place to be exploited for resources. Which Destiny implicitly does again when he talks about how the US shouldn’t let China overtake them when it comes to influence in Africa. First off as you saw above the US is clearly doing a fine job at the moment to make sure it plays an integral role literally everywhere in the world, which does in fact include Africa. Also what China is doing with ‘creating’ African infrastructure is tantamount to exploitation. Which isn’t really anything new on the policy front.
 
    Now that that mini lecture is over we can get onto what I am sure many people wished was the first paragraph of this section, that being my view of how foreign policy should be enacted through a leftist lense. Though to be completely honest Destiny is pretty spot on that I am in favor of a more non-interventionist policy and a complete reformation of the United Nations by giving them significantly more powers and authority over the world. Also, yes I am in favor of abolishing all borders thus I would rather see the UN become more of a world government. Obviously this would require the UN to not be located on US soil and instead operate in some sort of either independent country or be given land somewhere and become their own ruling area. Though, I don’t really have an exact plan for how the UN would work in the future. It definitely couldn’t operate as it currently does with a few set countries having unilateral veto power over anything they don’t like. I would probably also suggest something like having rotating countries operate as leaders of the group for set periods of time. Also they would have to be given power to not only enact global policy, but be able to enforce it too through a shared military made up of citizens of every nation. Again, a lot of this hammered out but it is all hypothetical considering the way the world currently runs. Before anyone says, “this can never happen” please go back to the top of this thread and look at the TL:DR image. Now, let me explain why I hold these positions and why they can’t be dismissed out of hand.
 
    The first reason being that no single country be it the UK, the US, or China should be the world's police officer. I think this should be self-evident. Unless you are assuming that you were always going to be born in the correct country you basically live at the whims of the most powerful nation. Assuming Destiny still accepts the Veil of ignorance this shouldn’t really be a tough sell. Now moving on to why I am a non-interventionist. I mean if you took the time to read the above and have any understanding of the world since WWI I don’t think I need to go any further on this point. The US has a horrendous track record of military intervention, imperialism, assassination programs, and so on. It isn’t really a new or innovative take to say that the US fucks a ton of shit up constantly and that it is not only getting harder to keep track of it all it is harder and harder for the citizens of the US to really feel the devastation. That being said I don’t think that the US should or could turn a blind eye to the world. Instead I would suggest that even without a reformed UN, the US government and military could easily change their strategy internally and have a profound positive effect on the world. That change being instead of trying to do the impossible and fight and defeat Terrorism the US could just use their vast military bases as stations for mass infrastructure building. I am pretty sure the best way to prevent regular people from being radicalized into wanting to murder people is to tangible make their life better. Instead of using these bases to hunt out radicalized individuals, many of whom may actually have been radicalized due to the militaries own actions, build them shit. Roads, schools, houses, hospitals things that they might actually want, need and use. I know a real radical change.
 
    Also as a parting question I often find myself thinking, “Should the people of Afghanistan be allowed to vote in US presidential elections? I mean that election clearly has significantly more impact on their lives than voting on any local puppet that can only operate within what authority the US allows them to have. I mean the US has been in Afghanistan for 18 years at this point with no real end point in sight at all.” But yeah, just a random thought.
 
Part 4: Destiny’s Reactionary/Shit opinions
 
(1) Workers are Stupid
    How do you define a worker? What qualities do managers have that can't also be applied to workers? This take seems more like Destiny is trying to create a strawman, and purposefully using this point to punch left. I don’t know of anyone who is advocating for randomly selecting one worker among a pool of workers to do jobs that they aren’t trained, qualified for, or prepared for. I mean Unions don’t just randomly select people, they have elections for different positions and appoint people who have the requisite skills to do certain jobs. So, I just don’t see how you can make a statement like that, not really back anything up and expect to be seen arguing in good faith.
 
(2) CEO Pay
    CEO (or C-class) pay will always be arbitrarily picked, so arguing for a single specific number will always be a losing argument. The better question to ask is, what effect does a large salary and preferential stock options have on these positions? Do they create positive or negative incentives, and how do they help the company? I would argue that one of the most important problems is that this creates a clear separation between the CEO and the workers. Unless the CEO owns the means of production it can be argued, as I would, that he is in fact just a worker. I would say that such CEO incentives often create bad outcomes for the actual company since these incentives usually push for maximising short term profits over long term goals such as the environment, the employee’s welfare, their communities welfare, heck even the actual companies solvency can easily be dismissed for an increased profit. So I don’t really see the positive effects of such pay schemes. Also, if your counter argument is about how CEOs should be paid more because their individual decisions can potentially affect the company's valuation or maybe the industry itself. Then your problem is actually with the company itself and how large it is, and that it probably should be broken up instead of using this as a reason to justify an enormous salary for a few individuals.
 
(3) Defending Emmia
    I only bring this up because I find it absolutely hilarious. I mean just look at how hard Destiny went to defend Emmia and compare that to his take on JVNA and IGumdrop incident. Just look at this snippet.The cherry for this is that he actually compares the two apologizes and gives his thoughts on how to make a good apology. Yet when she is on his stream talking he not only doesn’t offer her the advice, but he seems to defend her when she does things that are explicitly against his own advice. I mean it was really funny to see Destiny defend someone who refused to say, "I am sorry, I fucked up" even once.
 
(4) Defending Kyle Kashau
    I sort of agree that the document being leaked was probably not a good thing, however Harvard responding to the information contained in the leak was obviously a good move on their part. Oh, and Harvard has taken the exact same actions against similar problems in the past. If you take a look at even just the highlights it is pretty clear that it was more than just using a few words. It was a pattern of behavior that doesn’t seem to changed considering what company he has been working for and their recent history.
 
(5) All Cops are Evil
    So the main way that I have seen this point argued concerns the concept of the “Thin Blue Line” aka Cops will automatically defend other cops. This can be seen time and time again, in real life and how the media portrays the police. Due to this effect even the best police officers are tainted because there is no way to possibly know who are the good ones and who are the bad ones; resulting in wide distrust among police officers among groups who have the most interaction with them. Just look at Daniel Pantaleo the police officer who murdered Eric Garner after applying an illegal chokehold to Garner. This person had an atrocious record of doing illegal shit before this incident. He also had to literally kill someone and then face 5 years of intense pressure to even see the slightest of potential discipline. I mean his trial is only a departmental trial, so no victim of this will really be able to see any sort of justice. Thus that is why you will hear, “All Cops are Evil” because as soon as you put the uniform on you accept the conduct of all other cops good or bad. Oh and usually cops who cross the blue line don’t last long or face harsh retaliation for their actions, often coming from the top of the chain of command. Also as a final note the history of the US police force can find its roots in hunting escaped slaves so it isn’t like the track record has ever been particularly good.
 
(6) Cop-mala Harris
    If we are to take a look Kamala Harris she is not only a poor choice for the 2020 Dem Primary, but not a progressive at all. I really wish that instead of debating Destiny, Hasan would have just linked this video and gotten his food. This reviews a lot of her awful track record as a Prosecutor and shows that she is basically just a different Hillary, ie a person will only back a progressive idea once it has passed a significant level of support. Kamala also ran a pretty racist campaign to win her DA seat against what at the time was one of, if not the most, progressive DA in the country. Addressing one of the larger issues in the debate, Destiny’s claim that “it worked”. Sure I guess it probably did reduce truancy, but it also extracted a lot of wealth from these poor people and treated some of the people who need the most need to even more needless punishment. Oh and as a final note when it comes to the power of a DA, instead of punishing the parents of truant children a DA has the power to decide what to prosecute and what not too. Kamala would also have had the power to exonerate wrongfully accused people, eradicate records of non-violent drug offenders, and many other things that could have a positive effect on the lives of the people she targeted with this awful policy.
 
(7) Universal Free College shouldn’t be universal
    So Destiny doesn’t think that the middle class or poor people should have to pay so that rich children can go to school. Well I mean I hate to break it but that is how public schools already operate. Though to be fair most rich children don’t actually go to public schools (unless the school district is exclusively rich people) and instead attend private schools. So I don’t see how expanding free education to public universities would actually benefit rich kids. I mean even Berine’s plan won’t make private institutions free
    I don’t think I have seen Destiny make the same argument against Bernie's University Debt Jubilee. Where as a lot of critics took the same approach that Destiny made against free college. That this will just forgive the debt for rich people. Which really should make people rethink and ask the simple question, “Do rich people actually take out student loans?” With a very unsurprising answer of no; Bernie’s plan would actually help more middle to lower income individuals.
    Which leads to the real reason that it HAS to be a universal program. Anything else and it could be dismantled slowly like what is happening to many other current social programs. Those who see no potential or even possible benefit will not want to participate and attempt to use the current system to reduce or defund the plan. Making programs universal just makes them more secure for the future (See Universal Healthcare).
submitted by Pinyta to Destiny

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